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brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air

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brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air Apr. 21, 2008 7:58 am

tjpower55 1959 Bel Air 4 door sedan Posts: 9 Ottawa	Mr Bowtie - I have drums all the way around on my 59 bel air. Used to be disc on the front, but the guy who had the car before me did a terrible job doing the conversion from stock drums. He ended up cutting the control arms in half and welding different ends onto the stock control arms that would accept disc brakes. Naturally, this completely screwed up the suspension geometry of the front end and I was eating ball joints. So, last summer I removed the welded control arms and discs and just put on stock control arms and drums (from a 58-64, not sure which, but they fit perfectly) and put in a new master cylinder with a check valve. Front end now rides and steers a whole lot better, but ever since I went back to stock, the brakes drag a lot. I thought they were just badly adjusted, but I took it back to my mechanic and he said they were fine. The strange part about the whole thing is that the brakes are fine when the car is cold, ie when I start driving, but then they begin to drag progressively more and more after 5-10 minutes of driving or a few brake applications. It sometimes gets so bad that I have to stop for a while to let them cool down. After I leave the car for a few hours, brakes are fine, but problem recurs next time I drive. My mechanic seems to think it could be a problem with worn backing plates and old hardware on the rear drums. So I have procured a pair of used plates in good condition from a 62 bel air and I am probably going to install them when I get my car out of storage in a week. What I want to know is has anyone else had this problem and/or what do they/Mr Bowtie think it is? Another piece of information that I should add here is that I stripped the surface rust off the front drums and painted them with black heat paint last year before they were installed. Could this somehow be affecting the brakes ? Any help is much appreciated. I cannot drive more than 2-3 miles safely until I fix this. Tim

tjpower55
1959 Bel Air 4 door sedan
Posts: 9
Ottawa

Mr Bowtie -

I have drums all the way around on my 59 bel air. Used to be disc on the front, but the guy who had the car before me did a terrible job doing the conversion from stock drums. He ended up cutting the control arms in half and welding different ends onto the stock control arms that would accept disc brakes. Naturally, this completely screwed up the suspension geometry of the front end and I was eating ball joints. So, last summer I removed the welded control arms and discs and just put on stock control arms and drums (from a 58-64, not sure which, but they fit perfectly) and put in a new master cylinder with a check valve.

Front end now rides and steers a whole lot better, but ever since I went back to stock, the brakes drag a lot. I thought they were just badly adjusted, but I took it back to my mechanic and he said they were fine. The strange part about the whole thing is that the brakes are fine when the car is cold, ie when I start driving, but then they begin to drag progressively more and more after 5-10 minutes of driving or a few brake applications. It sometimes gets so bad that I have to stop for a while to let them cool down. After I leave the car for a few hours, brakes are fine, but problem recurs next time I drive.

My mechanic seems to think it could be a problem with worn backing plates and old hardware on the rear drums. So I have procured a pair of used plates in good condition from a 62 bel air and I am probably going to install them when I get my car out of storage in a week.

What I want to know is has anyone else had this problem and/or what do they/Mr Bowtie think it is? Another piece of information that I should add here is that I stripped the surface rust off the front drums and painted them with black heat paint last year before they were installed. Could this somehow be affecting the brakes ?

Any help is much appreciated. I cannot drive more than 2-3 miles safely until I fix this.

Tim

Re: brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air Apr. 21, 2008 2:15 pm

Mickey	Since your brakes are not self adjusting, your problem is with the return pressure to the master. I don't know if you changed the master cylinder from the disc setup. It is a different master for front disc than drum. Even so I would use a new drum master and install new spring kit on all four wheels. The wheel springs return the shoes to the original setting when the master pressure is released. Could be weak springs or the master valves not releasing the pressure when you get off the pedal. Simple fix.

Mickey

Since your brakes are not self adjusting, your problem is with the return pressure to the master. I don't know if you changed the master cylinder from the disc setup. It is a different master for front disc than drum. Even so I would use a new drum master and install new spring kit on all four wheels. The wheel springs return the shoes to the original setting when the master pressure is released. Could be weak springs or the master valves not releasing the pressure when you get off the pedal. Simple fix.

Re: brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air Apr. 21, 2008 8:17 pm

tjpower55 1959 Bel Air 4 door sedan Posts: 9 Ottawa	Thanks for the input. Yes, I did change the master when I switched to drums. I changed it to one with a check valve so it would work correctly with the drums. I also will change the springs and clips on the drums and see if that helps. Is it possible that the check valve is retaining too much pressure in the brake lines so that the brakes will not disengage? Any other help/comments are again, much appreciated.

tjpower55
1959 Bel Air 4 door sedan
Posts: 9
Ottawa

Thanks for the input. Yes, I did change the master when I switched to drums. I changed it to one with a check valve so it would work correctly with the drums. I also will change the springs and clips on the drums and see if that helps. Is it possible that the check valve is retaining too much pressure in the brake lines so that the brakes will not disengage?
Any other help/comments are again, much appreciated.

Re: brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air Apr. 22, 2008 4:30 pm

CHEVY DUDE	You stated you changed the master cylinder, what style master cylinder did you install? If the car had some type of disc brake conversion on it when you bought it, it should have had a dual master cylinder and a proportioning valve of some type (nessary with a disc drum combo) originally this car would have had a single master cylinder without a proportioning valve. painting your brake drums really would not have any effect other than making them look good.

CHEVY DUDE

You stated you changed the master cylinder, what style master
cylinder did you install? If the car had some type of disc brake
conversion on it when you bought it, it should have had a dual master
cylinder and a proportioning valve of some type (nessary with a disc
drum combo) originally this car would have had a single master cylinder without a proportioning valve. painting your brake drums
really would not have any effect other than making them look good.

Re: brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air Apr. 22, 2008 6:51 pm

tjpower55 1959 Bel Air 4 door sedan Posts: 9 Ottawa	I'm not sure exactly what master cylinder my mechanic installed, but he told me that he had to change it to one with a check valve that was suitable for 4 wheel drums because the one I had on there was a dual master with a proportioning valve, like you mentioned. I know that the one he put on there was not the stock single type, but I assume that it was an appropriate replacement because he clearly stated that I needed a master suitable for 4 wheel drums. He was baffled when I told him about the brakes dragging, and I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing (He owns the shop, works on my friends' cars, is certified, has a 67 camaro track car that he built, etc, etc). Anyway, I will make sure that the master on there is for 4 wheel drum, even though I am 99% sure it is. I was doing some research and one possible reason that I came up with for my problem is that the piston in the master cylinder might not be retracting all of the way when I take my foot off the brake pedal. If this was the case, the compensating port would not be exposed and pressure would just build in the lines every time I used the brakes. Is this correct? The reason that I think this could be the problem is that I found a testimonial from some guy with a 59 buick who replaced his master cylinder and found that the new master did not match exactly with the adjusting rod from the brake pedal. This caused the piston to not retract all of the way to the compensating port, building pressure in the system each time he used the brakes, resulting in a progressively harder pedal and worse dragging as he would drive. These symptoms mirror my problem exactly. Is this a possibility? have you/people heard of this before? Sorry this is so long, Tim

tjpower55
1959 Bel Air 4 door sedan
Posts: 9
Ottawa

I'm not sure exactly what master cylinder my mechanic installed, but he told me that he had to change it to one with a check valve that was suitable for 4 wheel drums because the one I had on there was a dual master with a proportioning valve, like you mentioned. I know that the one he put on there was not the stock single type, but I assume that it was an appropriate replacement because he clearly stated that I needed a master suitable for 4 wheel drums. He was baffled when I told him about the brakes dragging, and I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing (He owns the shop, works on my friends' cars, is certified, has a 67 camaro track car that he built, etc, etc).

Anyway, I will make sure that the master on there is for 4 wheel drum, even though I am 99% sure it is. I was doing some research and one possible reason that I came up with for my problem is that the piston in the master cylinder might not be retracting all of the way when I take my foot off the brake pedal. If this was the case, the compensating port would not be exposed and pressure would just build in the lines every time I used the brakes. Is this correct? The reason that I think this could be the problem is that I found a testimonial from some guy with a 59 buick who replaced his master cylinder and found that the new master did not match exactly with the adjusting rod from the brake pedal. This caused the piston to not retract all of the way to the compensating port, building pressure in the system each time he used the brakes, resulting in a progressively harder pedal and worse dragging as he would drive. These symptoms mirror my problem exactly. Is this a possibility? have you/people heard of this before?

Sorry this is so long,

Tim

Re: brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air Apr. 22, 2008 7:06 pm

CHEVY DUDE	It is quite possible when the other owner did the disc conversion he changed the rod, check it out.

Re: brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air Apr. 23, 2008 4:52 am

57 belair	classic chevy international told a reader, because he had brake problems after switching to disc brakes, that he needed to drill a hole in the brake pedal arm to relocate the rod 1 inch from its factory hole. maybe that was whats been done to your car and what you need to do is put the rod back in its original hole. good luck

Re: brakes drag like mad on 59 bel air May. 01, 2008 4:31 am

fyomama	you need a new mechanic. sounds like he's clueless. can't even diag some brakes?? loser!!

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